I mean, I cant tell you how many stories I heard just like the one that you told the people who said, Well, I was at a conference with Bill Hybels, and he was awful to me. It should be something that he learned from, right? Or what is the church think about Calvinism? something along those lines. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. Yeah, were all saints who sometimes sin. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? I learned that from Bill. To me, Bill did not come across as a predator, flirty or suggestive with women. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." But this is the beauty of I think whats arisen is an independent media. The small tape recording process drew the attention of many people who were eager for a copy of the teaching they heard at church to share with friends and neighbors. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. Inside their system, they need to be guarded, governed, guided. I mean, its an accurate criticism of people within the church. They have a responsibility to the larger church to speak. I hear you say that and I believe in accountability really strongly. Please note, our website requires JavaScript to be supported. Pete has offered to Pete has offered to He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. Well, to answer your question, very bad. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. As I was working through the Willow Creek representation with these women, the thing that kept cropping up to me was the Milgram experiment. I was blown away. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. The Elder Board has accepted Petes decision, and his resignation is effective March 31, 2019. So since youve seen a lot of this kind of up close and personal through talking to witnesses and elders and staff people, how bad was the abuse at Willow Creek? Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. And I have other thoughts about that and how that all worked out. Frankly I find church to be excruciatingly lonely. The outside investigation report said something along the lines of, Bill Hybels hundreds or thousands of emails with this woman were, not available. Well, as it turns out my understanding from talking to witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. John and Nancy Ortberg had been at Willow Creek as pastors. And I think it wasnt a problem, Mitch, because everybody always agreed with whatever the senior pastor wanted. But youre right. And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. And so when you see behaviors that look like grooming, you know, John Calvin, Im not a Calvinist. And I could explain why I think thats funny, but you have to have extreme accountability, the larger your platform gets. But I have to say that in the middle of dealing with a lot of tall weeds and bugs, God has also given me some flowers and fruit trees to enjoy. If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. Whats our theology? Continue Reading The Upper Room: John 15 Posted by Nate Murray At the same time, hes writing a book and writing articles for Christianity Today about marriage purity. Their board operated by unanimity as well. And really, I came back to the Lord at Willow and He used that church to help me reestablish my relationship with Him and with His church. So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? This person or these people were hurt as a result, you have a pride problem. We bought the routine and its shocking. And so I hope your listeners understand what I mean, when I say this, thats how good God is that he can use people who are even morally bankrupt, to bring people to himself. And the thing that is astonishing to me, you used the issue of emotional vulnerability is that, you know, a lot of times our strengths are our weaknesses. Also, any comments with profanity, name-calling, and/or a nasty tone will be deleted. Much has been written on establishing criteria for board member selection. And yet here we see a church thats ostensibly about serving God, and its about proclaiming the gospel and yet this is happening within the church. Yeah, totally agree. I think it took courage. After a failed attempt to travel alone in his truck out west, he came to church with us that very day. Was there any evidence found that he actually had an affair? However, whenever he would do that quavering voice, etc., I would wonder how he could do that for all three identical services? I mean, it was a great time. And Harvest was the same thing. Is that right? I think its incredibly dangerous. Yeah, I just saw you ran a story on MacDonalds massive mansion in Illinois being held in the name of Vanilla Bean LLC. And I remember you saying. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. Also, make sure you subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts. Like they didnt read a book, figuring out how to do it, but there are warning signs that people need to be aware of. Youre absolutely right. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. You know, when you have somebody like Bryan Loritts, who when hes talking about why when he was at a former church, he didnt disclose to the church that they had a sexual predator among them for six months. But they spoke. And this is a huge problem in the Evangelical Church in the southern baptist church, I mean, just absolutely massive problem where so often the predators covered up instead of brought to justice. But it really had the tone has to be set by leadership for a culture of goodness. Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. I understand that the desire to have elders dealing with what Ill call Echelon or tier level, theological topics: What does the church think about, you know, for example, racial reconciliation? And presented them with the information, he essentially tossed it to the side and said, So what?, No consequences. I think there was a culture of pride at Willow that basically said, We are the elite of the Christian world. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. I appreciate you so much and look forward to visiting with you again soon. I hope you have a great day and God bless. So, you know, Julie, its really its death by 1000 cuts. Great question. I was a member of WCCC for many years. I want to thank Pete too for advocating for women participating fully in leadership and for Libby modeling what it means to be a true helper (ezer kenegdo). I dont think that he caused the elder board to resign. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. But we dont have time on this podcast. Through Petes teaching on Sundays and through various conversations with other staff members during the week, God shifted my perspective on what it means to live life in Christ one from my own efforts to please God to one of Christs efforts on my behalf to love me deeply, extravagantly, and permanently. I am thrilled to be here. But the thing that was so shocking to me, is that Bill Hy Hybels was the first pastor I had ever seen be so vulnerable from the pulpit. It is not a program is not a set of services. that keeps the honest person honest. ) So, Willows pride did not allow them to see any flaws in their leadership, especially their premier leader. And Ive been a critic of megachurch multi-site model. If anything has a whiff of impropriety, we would jump on it immediately. And I think there was, but I think that theres a spiritual stronghold around celebrity culture within evangelicalism writ large. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. I thought that emails could always be recovered, even after being erased, by a good IT person. It manifested at the Human Resources level. To me, this was one of the beautiful God moves about the entire situation. Funny, whenever I would watch Bill Hybels preach online or speak at the GLS, and he would go into that quavering voice, tears-in-his-eyes, emotional mode, Id stop listening. and I found these people in those imperfect churches! The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. This is Chicago Tribune. This is people who are dissillusioned, who wanted big jobs at Willow and didnt get them. But when Scot, the the intra tribal dissenter steps up and says, This is wrong, things shifted. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. When you have a woman who says I was molested by a staff member, or you have a staff member who says, Bill Hybels just threw a punch at me, or dog cuts me up and down the hallway, those arent matters of policy, Julie. It is a collection of people that we are to care for. You have your identity rooted in something other than Christ, the centrality of Christ. And so, you know, as a lawyer on the board, youre not absolved from the obligation of complying with the mandates of Scripture. If they have the character to lead the accountability will help keep them you know, keep them honest, so to speak, you know, its kind of like when you put a bike lock on your bike that. Yep, thats rooted in pride. What I need most is what I dont have. Nobody has said they had intercourse with Bill. In our church, we have a no tolerance policy. The other thing I wanted to talk to you about in you mentioned this in earlier discussion we had about the identity of elders and how so often, and I dont think its just elders, I think its a lot of the senior pastor leadership and staff that their identity tends to become enmeshed with the success or failure of the organization theyre a part of. And this is one of the I think exciting things. I will let you know as soon as I figure it all out. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. This is a calling. And the thing about predators, Bill Hybels included, okay, is they start to do more things in public to condition you to behavior that is inappropriate, and they test their boundaries, to see what they can get away with. Well, early on in the process after the Tribune article, we had to make a decision, How are we going to fight a machine of this size that is basically promulgating lies about these women and their families and their supporters? And I reached out to people that I already knew within, you know, the watch blogging community. So whos supposed to hold whos supposed to hold the leaders accountable in that structure? This was something that was very deeply ingrained in their culture. They made a lot of friends a lot of money over the years selling books, promoting programs, platforming them at conferences, platforming them at the Global Leadership Summit. You feel that they have to have more of a governance more of a hands on role than a lot of them do. But at 22, I completely bought it. Can I talk about Scot McKnight for a second? WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. They wont produce any vanilla beans. And you you actually refer to it as multi-level marketing. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. And yet, they lost the PR battle, which is unbelievable. And so I thought it was so funny that James MacDonald had his house in the name of an entity called Vanilla Bean LLC. Absolutely. And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. But as you say its Gods grace that despite all that hes used these men to bless many, despite everything. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. James MacDonald was friends with Ed Stetzer. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. The church said in essence, Tsk, tsk. Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. You formed a nonprofit corporation. Right? It was everything from Vonda Dyers situation of being asked to come up to Bills room and talk leadership and a forced kiss, you know, a grab around the waist. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. And theyre born knowing how to do that. Let me give you some examples. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. But theres a sense that the Church of Jesus Christ Universal is represented all throughout not just the United States but the world. I dont think that theres anything at a mega church that innoculates it from being good. I dont know. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. I was blown away. Yes, probably a number of your listeners are aware of the situation where the Ortbergs and Mellados had tried to report to the board an alleged long term affair that Bill Hybels was engaged in and the church hired an outside investigator to investigate the situation. Okay. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. In context, I think my meaning becomes clear as I say soon after, agreeing with Mitchs assessment that unanimity is bad: Absolutely horrible. And they were no friends of ours during the Harvest investigation either. Hmm. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? which Hybels assented to including you know, repenting for his behavior and not talking about politics and some other things as well. And sadly, I think they have still. And we need to apologize. I have been a child of God since I was four and in ministry most of my life. I cant do this authentically anymore. And as hard as the last year and a half has been, I applaud him for that. Right. And thats what, thats what you end up protecting right? Theres another circumstance that I became aware of where The board had a 360 Review done on Hybels and his leadership and some problems they were experiencing with his management style from, you know, bullying, abusive style. When I came onto our board, the terms that Pete Briscoe used were, guide, govern and guard. And I think policy governance has the governing part. The cover up of his behavior manifested at the elder board level. And someone Im extremely glad is serving in church leadership. Nobody who is an elder at a church should have any aspect of their identity wrapped up in either the role of being an elder or in the success or failure of the organization. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both I want to share that God used Petes sermon on not being isolated (Ecclesiastes) in our sons life. But when we look at it from some practical ways that God used people to undo this, explain what you see as being the key forces. I think that he lost that. A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. Its good to be visiting with you again. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. And thankyou for all you do in the NAME of JESUS! Im Julie Roys. 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